FredMcKinnon.Com - Latest Comments in God Speaking (Mandisa)

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Knoteboom — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:09:27 -0000

I appreciate your comments especially about the losing a loved one line. I wholeheartedly agree with what you said. Thanks.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Fred — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:01:10 -0000

For all those out there who still get email subscription to this old thread ... my friend Aaron posted a gorgeous video to this song at:
http://armswideopen.wordpre...

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Enger Muteteke — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:00:08 -0000

Hello,
I am an Assistant Minister at a church in MD. I have heard the song, "God Speaking," and I think it's a beautiful song. I also love the words, but let me tell you my take on God's sovereignty. I look at God's sovereignty, in this song, in a different way. I'm using it to end a Good Friday service, but from the standpoint that God loves us so much that God will move heaven and earth to speak to us - especially if we don't know God's love. Whether one is a believer or not, bad things happen in all our lives. That's a fact. But, I don't think the song is saying that God causes these things to happen. I think that the song is naming things in one's life that can happen, have happened, or will happen, and, regardless of what happens, God is speaking, "I love you," period - all the time. I would challenge you to think about the song in this way: God loves us so much, that God speaks to us everywhere, at all times, and in everything circumstance - the death and Resurrection of God's son, Jesus, a sunrise, a sunset, God's beautiful creation, birthdays, weddings, but also funerals, the death of loved ones, difficult times in our lives, everything. That's the general and special revelation of God. I listened to an interview of Mandisa regarding her "God Speaking" song. And do you know what she said? She said that she wrote the song when she was going through a time in her life full of judgment and criticism. She said she took some time to herself to listen to what God was saying to her. And when she was quiet enought to hear God's voice, she said God spoke to her, not with a word of judgment or criticism, but simply said, "I Love You." The song is, really, her testimony about a time in her life. I hope you are not implying that God only speaks to us and is with us when things are going great in our lives. If so, I wholeheartedly disagree with that. On the contrary, the Savior who speaks to us in the good times, I firmly believe, is the same Savior who weeps with us, advocates for us, and comforts us in the difficult times whispering "I Love You."

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

inWorship — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:36:02 -0000

"but I guess my main issue all along was that because it was unclear, and "up to interpretation" to me ... I just didn't feel that it was the right fit for our corporate worship service."

And I believe it is ultimately your right to make this call because of the position you are in. The reality is whatever we all think, you have more understanding and the authority for your congregation.

I've enjoyed this conversation as well.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Fred — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:32:07 -0000

Matt,
Great observation - I totally love how this discussion has continually evolved.

Now that i've heard all the discussion, I really like the song. I did hear from a person recently who personally knows the songwriter, and they verified that the writer is ABSOLUTELY NOT suggesting that God "caused" the bad things; rather, that He was there in the midst.

Of course, that may revive the whole "first cause" argument .. but I guess my main issue all along was that because it was unclear, and "up to interpretation" to me ... I just didn't feel that it was the right fit for our corporate worship service.

That doesn't take away from the song overall, and I'd totally be all for someone singing this as "special music" and taking 2-3 minutes to talk about the song and what it suggests - that would be sweet. I just didn't want to perform it as a stand alone w/o any opportunity to explain it, and in the scenario I originally blogged about, that would've been the case due to time constraints.

So great having this discussion!
Fred

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Matt Norman — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:18:25 -0000

Milana, I agree with what you are saying about God using the hard times in our lives. I also believe that is what the song is saying. However, the concern that Fred expressed in the inital post was that the song appeared to say that God caused the the hard times. In the examples you gave God used bad things to his good, but he did not cause them to happen, he simply allowed it to happen. I think we can all agree that God allows bad things to happen and then uses them for his good. I think some were just worried that people might take the song to mean that God would cause bad things to happen in our lives in order to get our attention.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Milana — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:06:13 -0000

Hi guys,

I have read most of the comments going back and forth but not all. So If I am repeating anyone, sorry.

One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is some major events in the bible.

Let's look at the Israelites. God told Abraham that his descendents would go into captivity. God allowed that captivity to happen. And look at the amazing things he showed us about His love, mercy, soveriegnty, power and well to cut the list short - His character.

And what about Job. Did not God allow satan to attack every part of His family, lively hood and physical elements of Job himself? Is this not a sorrowful event. God used it though for Job's life personally and his relationship with Christ and as an example to us.

and what about the history of martyrs. Would you say then that their death is meaningless. Their deaths, for many, spread the word of God, started revivels, etc.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that God is the root cause of all the bad crap in the world. He gave us freedom of choice, and we are born into sin. So bad things are going to happen. But the point that I truly believe that Mandisa is saying is. God is here through it all and we will use anything - especially valleys (pain, hurt, confusion, fear) to show who he is and how we need him.

He knows the world is broken. so he uses the brokeness to create beauty one person and one situation at a time.

My challenge is this. Take a moment to reflect back on your own life, and even the lives of those around you who have walked a true journey with God. When was His glory most revealed. When were you most changed, and encouraged by God?

Think about the reality of that and then meditate on the songs lyrics again.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

inWorship — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:02:29 -0000

I would never use a song that I knew specifically meant something that did not line up with my morals or purpose. I also would never take a song and make it mean something for worship.

But the song in question was to be more of a "special" and many songs have a lot of room for meaning and I think could work nicely into making a point or emphasizing a topic.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Robert McKinnon — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:28:19 -0000

I think it's really important to understand where the song comes from. If you don't understand what you're singing about from the author's perspective, at least have an understanding of where you're coming from yourself. It's more than just "poetry" when it's worshipping God. Worship is intentional and should have a focus. I need to know what I'm worshipping God with.

But that's just me.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Matt Norman — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:54:12 -0000

Oh yeah, one more thing (this is it I prosmise). Last Friday I saw Mandisa at Winter Jam. She did this song and talked about the meaning of it as an introduction to the song. She talked about how even when we are in a bad circumstance, even when we are hurting that God is there speaking. She talked about how God CAN use those situations to speak to us. She did not say that Gdo caused the situation in order to get our attention. Ok, I think I am done for now.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Matt Norman — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:51:38 -0000

Oh yeah one more thing. I also believe that sharing the story behind a given song, or the scriptural reference for the song can give a deeper meaning for the congregation and therefore lead to a deeper worship experience.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Matt Norman — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:50:30 -0000

I agree that we should use a song because of how it spekas to us or our congregation. However, I find that when I know the story behind a given song it often gives it more meaning or adds meaning where there may not have been. For instance Because He Lives. This is a song that we do rather frequently and since hearing the story behind it I find myself thinking about that story everytime I sing the song which makes the song much more powerful for me. I love the books written by Mark Hall of Casting Crowns which tell the stories behind many of the songs he has written.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

inWorship — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:23:33 -0000

I love that this conversation is still going.

Based on what Robert just said,

"Sometimes I wish that each song-writer would write a little explanation"

I think Travis just touched on it a bit, but does it matter what they meant by it? Can we not take a song and use for how we see it?

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Travis — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:12:56 -0000

Robert I understand what you are saying, but doesn't that take some of the fun out of it? It is poetry, I remember sitting in class and being told that we aren't supposed to always know what the author meant.

That being said... yeah, I love knowing what authors meant, even if it sometimes meant something different to me.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Robert McKinnon — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:59:36 -0000

Sometimes I wish that each song-writer would write a little explanation of how their songs were inspired above the words. There are just too many songs I really like but still don't know where they're coming from. Just a thought.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Fred — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:31 -0000

Hi Rosemary,

Thanks for your comments .. I'm glad you found the blog, and hope you'll stay around as a daily reader! The more I hear from people, the more I can see that hopefully that's what the writer meant. Actually, a friend of the songwriter has contacted me and said that's DEFINITELY what the writer meant, so it makes me enjoy the song so much more.

All along, I thought it was a beautiful song, I just didn't necessarily think I could use it in corporate worship w/o some explanation ... I didn't want to leave that up to "interpretation".

God bless,
Fred

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Rosemary B — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:58:24 -0000

I hear her lyrics on fear differently. I did not assume she was implying GOd tangled us in fear or that he was the author, but as you said we at times will fall into the trap of fear (dispite the admonition to "fear not"). When we do he will be there to help us out of it. When she says "involved" I took it to mean he never leaves us and in the midst of our circumstances he will speak to us and help us out of the trap. I guess we need to ask her what she intended. Thanks! Rosemary

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Robin — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:21:23 -0000

My take is exactly as you expected as you were writing this. yes God can use something like the death of a loved one to speak to us and for some people it can take a death of a loved to get the conservation with God started... that is what I think that lyrics is pointing to. As for tangled up in fear... again being in a fearful position should get us to the point to where we realize that we need to start to listen to God. And by doing so, He can and will take the fear away. If you believe that "He'll do and He'll use WHATEVER He wants to..." then the death of a loved one and a scary situation aren't excluded. You and I have heard many testimonies from people that essentially says "I was so scared I didn't know what to do, then I listen to God". In those Fear Not situations in the Bible: seeing the angel God sent caused the shepherds to "fear" until the angel God sent said "fear not". They weren't fearful prior to the angel appearing. I understand that you must be careful about what is presented in your worship services, but this song could bless so many people, I sorry to hear that you didn't take advantage of the opportunity to use it during the Christmas season when so many people need to know that God is still speaking to each of us individually today, we just need to be made aware and listen.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Fred — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:27:07 -0000

Mr. Lewis -

Thanks so much. Your reply seems absolute and authoritative, as if you know the writer personally, and have direct knowledge of the writer's intention ... is this the case, or is this just your interpretation? I'd love to know this was straight from the writer (Ronnie?) ... sure makes the song wonderful for me again!

My issue wasn't that the writer meant one thing or another - but that it "could be" interpreted to mean it was caused - it was questionable enough, that without interpretation and explanation, I wasn't comfortable using it.

Hope you'll come back and respond.
Fred

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Mr. Lewis — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:58:18 -0000

I completely do not agree. What the author, Ronnie Freeman, was saying was - when we are tangled up in fear (it's a reality - it happens to many people) God is involved - He's there, He's seeing us through it - He never causes it, but He knows that sometimes the best way for us to learn is for us to experience the "winters" of life. That's how He can pull us out. It requires more faith on our part.

Again, Ronnie was not saying God's involvement meant He caused those things to happen....He was saying His involvement is to be with us during those times, using that situation to speak to us. It happened - He might as well use it to teach us, etc.

God's perfect "A" will for us is just that perfect. We are not perfect. When we choose to go a different path - it's our choice. However, the very moment that happens, God is trying to get us back on His perfect path for our lives. It may take months or even years. That's when His "B", and "C" wills come in. He makes a detour to get us back.

I hope this helps.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Shannon Lewis — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:13:46 -0000

Rob...
good stuff.

Honestly, I hope I don't sound like I know it all on this topic - I've changed my way of seeing this so many times...I'll be reading my Bible and get slapped with a verse, and I say, "here we go again - how does THIS one pick into the picture of God I have in my brain", and sometimes it's troubling, but more often than not the final result is that my view of God gets broadened, sometimes so much so that it feels as though I've just been 'converted ' all over again. I love those moments!

Yes, though - very good conversation. I think I'm going to do a whole SERIES on a related subject at my other blog starting late next week, using Piper/Taylor's SUFFERING AND THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD as a jumping point. Stop by and be encouraged to enter into the conversation - I'd love to hear from you.

blessings...

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Robert McKinnon — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:17:08 -0000

I must say I have been more challenged by this blog than most anything I've read in ages! That's what I love about discussions like this. I want to take this moment to also say that I am humbled by the great showing of love and mercy from all of you. I've never had this kind of discussion before with folks without people getting ugly. You guys are great.

I've been pondering all that was said - especially your response Shannon. The Lord has brought to my remembrance a number of times that I have actually "planned" unpleasant things in order to teach my children a lesson.

Now before you go calling me a bad daddy let me give an example: no amount of talking to one of my sons could change his attitude about a certain thing. So I arranged a circumstance to happen in order to place him in that very place. He gained a true understanding of what it meant and it changed his life.

My son David has just received a paintball gun. I spent alot of money on it and he was so excited! But now he's scared and doesn't want to join into the fray at a big party. I know he will regret it if he doesn't get involved. So I have "planned and orchestrated" a sneak attack on him today. We're simply going to trap him in a place and shoot him up a little.

I know my son. He will be afraid. Then he will be upset. Then he will be angry. Then he will start laughing and probably shoot better than all of us.

My heavenly Father has done this to me so many times that it makes my head spin. He has (I believe) put me in situations that have challenged me above and beyond the place I felt I was spiritually or physically strong enough to handle. All in order to REVEAL TO ME WHO I WAS AND WHAT I WAS CAPABLE OF.

Having said all that, I believe that God is and always has been and always will be the same. But if I had to describe what that is it would be this:

GOD IS LOVE, AND YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO NEXT. HE'S ALWAYS THE SAME - TOTALLY UNPREDICABLE.

In that, He is sovereign. I still hold to many of my beliefs about this subject. But above all my beliefs now is a banner in my heart that says "I have found myself full of the ability to be wrong".

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Justin Davidson — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:46:30 -0000

I just have to say this has been the best blogging I have seen since I started, which has not been long. Shannon and Travis I must agree, yet years ago I would have fought tooth and nail with what you are saying.
I have come to realize I cannot put God in a box. And the more I have grown in the word of God I see he is the Author and Perfecter of my life. What is Good? What can seem horrible to us(death of a loved one), could be the best thing if that person knows Jesus. He IS IN HEAVEN!!!!!, or God has used a circumstance to test our faith, and we have the choice how we respond. What is God trying to teach in this moment, or the amount of people that start to think about eternity and afterlife. Funerals are an amazing worship, and has and can be a divine moment to share thw gospel.

3Not only so, but we[a] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Roman 5:3-5
I don't understand everything about my life, but has used every bit for the hope I have in Christ now. I wouldn't change any of it. Every bit has shaped my life, especially the hard circumstances. I am ok to know God can allow hard times. He is my Father who loves me and sees the Greater good of it all.

As Travis said: The serpent was put in the garden for a reason. What was God up to???

These are my ramblings....but I do believe in balance. I believe in unity of the body, and especially the Ultimate Authority(the Word Of God).

Even if a song could be controversial, I like the fact it could have people ask questions. I want people to be challenged in worship. I don't people to come to a worship service on Sunday morning and just leave feeling all fuzzy inside. I want lives to be changed more to living like and for Jesus.

This all said, I totally agree the song must be biblical. I do mean challenging in the biblical sense and not just some song thats heresy to have people question.

Go Jesus!! He rocks my face off.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Travis — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:42:19 -0000

We seem to be bouncing back and forth the concept of causality. We can blame sin, randomness, etc. but everything goes back to a cause, a single cause. Either God put it in motion and knew what was going to happen OR there is some serious explaining to do. A pretty controversial retreat speaker I heard once asked an incredibly profound question, "who put the serpent in the garden?" I think we get hung up basically on the "bad things happening to good people" issue with this, and we try to bail God out. It is hard for us to justify the hows and whys but the scriptures never call us to that accountability. I think I hear many of the comments leaning in the direction of truly acknowledging the Sovereignty of God, yet still being uncomfortable with what that actually has them admit.

Re: God Speaking (Mandisa)

Shannon Lewis — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:54:34 -0000

Jordan...
oddly enough, today - while mopping my studio/family room - I was pondering that very thing! I think it would do a good many worship leaders quite a bit of good to - maybe not get a PhD in Theology - study theology far more than they do. I think that's why I've been really excited by the songwriting of Matt Redman, Graham Kendrick (particularly his more recent material), Vicky Beeching, and many of the Sovereign Grace Ministries folks - they clearly come from deep wells, not only of emotion, but of thought. Personally, I try to keep at least one book of theology (systematic, biblical, or practical - I rotate) on my bedside next to my Bible and something devotional at all times. Though I don't read huge chunks at a time, a page or two every few nights almost always challenges me spiritually, and has much greater depth than most devotional material for me.

Robert - I like your attempt at balance, which is exactly what I want to do as well - find a Biblical balance, yet acknowledge the mystery. I would ask, however, how God's 'Old Testament wrath' played into God's clear responsibility, as acknowledged in the book, of Job's tribulations, or for that matter, Joseph's? Also, what does this do to how we understand God being the same "yesterday, today, and forever"?

I do like the image of a 'hall pass' - that seems to fit most of the imagery of how evil works in the Bible. I think the lyrics of this song seem to acknowledge that God gives a hall-pass to certain events and/or actions of the devil/demons/or fallen human hearts and not others because He recognizes how they fit into his greater plan and those are - somehow - the 'best', in the long-run...and those things - which are indeed "ALL THINGS" (good & evil) are 'worked' for our "good".

I'm surprised at how long this discussion has gone! Good stuff!